Kick Drum Processing
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:55 PM   #1
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Kick Drum Processing

Hi All!

What other ways (if not layering) would people process kick drums for EDM music? as in, not recorded kick drums from a kit?

Would like to know what other technics existed for getting a good big kick drum sound.

If it makes any difference to how it was processed, I was talking more for house music.

Thanks!

Last edited by creativemind; 07-26-2016 at 05:02 PM..

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Old 07-26-2016, 09:25 PM   #2
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

EQ, compression, transient designer, saturation, limiting, distortion...but above all: layering.

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Old 07-27-2016, 02:01 AM   #3
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

This layering thing... I've never really gotten quite the results it's been made to produce. Maybe I need to play more with it. I've just always been able to get the results from pretty much everything else on your list.

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Old 07-27-2016, 04:31 AM   #4
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

I've been trying to figure out layering for a year, I think I have one good layered snare to show for it.
For kicks, my secret sauce is pultec-based eq. There are a lot of free ones, Son Eq and PTEq-X jump to mind. Other than that, how everything else is ducked around the kick has a much bigger effect on the sound than I expected. There's some different ways to do that, I'm still figuring out what's best for me.
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Old 07-27-2016, 10:39 AM   #5
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

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Originally Posted by liquid_air View Post
This layering thing... I've never really gotten quite the results it's been made to produce. Maybe I need to play more with it. I've just always been able to get the results from pretty much everything else on your list.
Think in terms of frequency axis (bands like subs, bass, middy punch, clicky highs, etc) and time axis (transient, body, tail, reverb, noise tail, etc). 3D instead of 2D. Now treat the layers with the stuff in my list.


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Old 07-27-2016, 12:12 PM   #6
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

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Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
Think in terms of frequency axis (bands like subs, bass, middy punch, clicky highs, etc) and time axis (transient, body, tail, reverb, noise tail, etc). 3D instead of 2D. Now treat the layers with the stuff in my list.

you just beat me to it. lately for me its been 80's drum machine kick drums (sampled acoustic kicks, not like 808/909 etc) for the attack layered with a sine subby kick for the cajones.

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Old 07-27-2016, 06:01 PM   #7
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

IMO there is one particularly critical thing to keep in mind when layering kicks (and percussion in general)- the phase interaction of the two samples.

Ideally, you will be layering in a situation where it is very easy to delay one sample by a few milliseconds (or better yet samples) and not the other. As far as I know, the two tools that make this the easiest are Ableton drum racks, and fxspansion geist. Ableton is particularly good for this because you can download the free voxengo delay plugin (called sample delay i think?) and insert extremely precise delays on any layer you want.

If I'm layering drums, this is usually my first step. As other posters stated above, it is important to consider the different frequency and time characteristics of the samples you are layering. You don't have to get too technical about it, but it is important to choose samples that will compliment each other.

You can also do some filtering. Highpass or low pass on each sample is usually sufficient. I've seen people use really steep curves, but I think I like smoother ones nowadays. If you can't get it sounding pretty good only using a gentle filter and sample offset adjustments, you should consider using different samples.


After that, I would mess with the amplitude envelopes of each sample. I could go into great detail here, but I don't have time lol.

Then there is compression. Compressing kick drums is different from compressing other stuff (for me anyway). What I usually end up doing, is adjusting the amp envelopes until the kick has a kind of initial thud that lasts for around errr.. i dunno 50-100 milliseconds (that's off the dome.. not sure if accurate).

The thing is, usually the transient will be too intense at the beginning of the hit. So, what I end up doing, is having a compressor clamp down pretty fast and hard (4:1 ratio?) and let go pretty quick. Adjust to taste. This will get you a more solid thump. Then you might want to do more gentle and slow compression for overall shape.

There is another way I compress kicks from time to time.. this is for less weighty, more thumpy kicks. In this case, I will open the attack on the compressor to around 20-40 milliseconds with medium release, adjust ratio to taste. After this, I will usually have to limit or clip, because a lot of times there will be a super fast and loud transient depending on stuff.

I hope all this helps!

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Old 07-27-2016, 06:09 PM   #8
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

here's another thing that popped in my head. this took me a long time to figure out.

One thing i really like on drums in general, is the sound of a super snappy, clicky transient on the front end. You can get these really easily by throwing a transient processor on and cranking the attack.

The problem is, it's hard to get this to fit in a mix. That's because, due to the style of mixing/mastering that is prevalent at the moment, there isn't nearly enough headroom to have some big ass transient in front of your samples.

So you have to be careful about how you address this. One of the best ways IMO is to clip the sample right after you get the click. If the click only last <10 ms, you should be able to clip it with no problem. You can also do a limiter.

Some people will wait to limit their drums as a group. That can work too, it just has a different sound. Another technique is to not limit these transients until the master.. I guess this can work, but I imagine it's very difficult to pull of.

You can also try to eq the click to where it sounds like there's more of a transient than there actually is.


This shit is tricky lol..

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Old 07-28-2016, 03:11 AM   #9
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

I like my kicks splatty where the tail is distorted/saturated/sustained. I hipass @30hz, lopass around 12khz-13khz depending on how clicky you want it. Cut in the 250hz to 350hz range, a lot. boost anywhere from 50-90hz, add compression 4:1 ratio 20-30ms attack 80-120ms release, threshold/gain reduction to where it's compressing -3dBs or close on the heavier hits unless it's a sample then just -3dB all around. if you want it layered with other kicks watch for phase and frequency masking, split them up- use one sample for high end and one for low...or go crazy and do ten layers. i never get that detailed with kicks, usually only about two, one for highs and one for lows/ maybe a 808 thrown in for just the subs but it depends on the material.

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Old 08-03-2016, 06:58 PM   #10
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

As you're interested in house, don't be ashamed to sample other house and techno tunes' kicks. Single hits, loops, it's all good and you can learn a lot about sound design and groove.

For minimal stuff I've had some good results just using sines, noise, envelopes and precious little else. For acid stuff, a drum machine, some distortion and some crushing and compression. I tend not to delve into much other housey stuff without using a few layered samples/machines.

A lot of what makes a kick good depends on what else is there to compliment and contrast it, so yeah. Short answer to a massive question.

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Old 08-04-2016, 02:59 PM   #11
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

I use a 909 emulator for the source always, the reason why is because for some reason the source is just perfect to process. I made processed drums with other synths but I never liked the timbre that much, they always sounded too digital..
I process it in such a way that I keep saturating it to taste, distortion, reverb, subtle eq'ing, more distortion, compression and then repeating this - until the "punching" timbre is right, then I highpass that sound, take another unprocessed 909 punch, lowpass filter it, and place it about 1ms after the hitting punch and pitch-bend this one in a sampler until it fits with the hitting punch to give the overall sound the "oomf"

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Old 08-04-2016, 05:10 PM   #12
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

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Originally Posted by aLiner View Post
I use a 909 emulator for the source always, the reason why is because for some reason the source is just perfect to process. I made processed drums with other synths but I never liked the timbre that much, they always sounded too digital..
909 kick is indeed the quintessential solid kick. good point.

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Old 08-04-2016, 05:19 PM   #13
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

Waldorf Attack

Thank me later

Use fuckin drum synth !!! Ţ Ąᾨ ᾩ ᾪ ᾫ ᾬ ᾭ ᾮ ᾯ
Add 3 tracks. Add Waldorf Attack on each track. 1 track - synthesize low-frequency drum, 2 - medium; 3 - high. In the end it should be a fat kick. Probably.

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Old 08-04-2016, 06:38 PM   #14
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

if you're into the big house/trance kickdrums you could also try Omnisphere, you have access to so many different 'famous' waveforms and you can also do layering inside the synth. this is what Airwave uses to make his kicks nowadays

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Old 08-05-2016, 05:53 PM   #15
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

I did state in this thread, that I wanted NON-LAYERING techniques as I started another thread on Layering a Kick drum about 3 weeks before this one.

Also, I wouldn't want a click on my kick. I want just a good nice sounding kick which drives the track well, sounds smooth and non aggressive. For house music.
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Old 08-05-2016, 07:33 PM   #16
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

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Originally Posted by creativemind View Post
I did state in this thread, that I wanted NON-LAYERING techniques as I started another thread on Layering a Kick drum about 3 weeks before this one.

Also, I wouldn't want a click on my kick. I want just a good nice sounding kick which drives the track well, sounds smooth and non aggressive. For house music.
Transient designer. Or simply add some amp attack time if you use a kick sample in a sampler.

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Old 08-06-2016, 08:30 AM   #17
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

The techniques used to get good kicks are anything but a mystery. There has to be 8 trillion articles available on it. It's really about training your ears to recognize when you've arrived at a good kick,

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Old 08-06-2016, 12:12 PM   #18
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

An interesting way I've found for processing individual kicks without layering (but also works well for layering) would be to use a Tube Virtualiser at the beginning of the chain (Bitsonic TubeVirtualiser is awesome for this, it's only 10 at the moment) and immediately just semi-aggressively buss compress it afterwards (I use Kramer PIE for this @ +4dBm-Threshold +6dBm-Output 8x100ms-Decay 5:1-Compress-Ratio Analog-OFF). Keeping the conversion on the tube insert at around Medium/Optimal/Large ranges will get you the best result, putting it any higher starts to make kicks processed through it abit too 'splatty' (which isn't that bad if you're going for a hyper aggressive sound) and at lower settings, there's just no point bothering. Fade-Out your drum sample by around 10-20% and you're good to go!

Funnily enough this also works rather well for Big Drum Percussion like what's available in the EW Stormdrum Series if you ever fancy dabbling with a Cinematic style

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Old 08-06-2016, 06:10 PM   #19
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

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Originally Posted by Outre Lights View Post
What's the lowest frequency you guys like to have your kicks peak at? And how sharp (if any) of a roll-off do you like to use under that?
I keep mine 50 hz and up, and if I run a hipass, I put it at 30-40 hz, steep cutoff (24 db/oct or greater). Any less and the filter doesn't have room to actually reduce the sub frequencies before it hits 0 hz IMO.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:06 PM   #20
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Re: Kick Drum Processing

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativemind View Post
I did state in this thread, that I wanted NON-LAYERING techniques as I started another thread on Layering a Kick drum about 3 weeks before this one.

Also, I wouldn't want a click on my kick. I want just a good nice sounding kick which drives the track well, sounds smooth and non aggressive. For house music.
I don't want to berate you but you asked a very wide question, your description is very subjective and vague, and there are many different types of house music and many different options for using different kinds of kicks within each subgenre.

Anyway. Try a low pass filter envelope, open for the attack of the kick, closed for the very end, timed and curved to suit your smooth and non-aggressive requirements.

For compression I'd suggest a long attack to let the initial impact of the kick sound pass unattenuated, upwards of 150ms - maybe even hundreds of ms longer depending on the timbre and dynamics of the kick, tempo/how frequently it's being used per bar...

So anyway, long arsed attack to let the kick's natural ...kick (let's not talk about clicks or transients) pass through uncompressed. Next, a short arsed decay time. As short as you can without it clicking, buzzing or distorting the sound. You want your compressor to be doing next to nothing by the time the next kick comes along, ready to let the punch/boom/oomph through again.

Threshold, knee, gain, etc, is all up to you (and dependent on the amplitude of your kick to begin with), but my rule of thumb is the lower your ratio, the lower your threshold. Assuming your kick naturally peaks in the -6dB to 0dB range, you'd want a -30db threshold to have a ratio in the 1.1:1 to 1.9:1 range, and quite a lot of gain, like maybe 6-10dB or more. Or maybe not, it depends, but that's how I'd initially approach it.

A subtle narrow boost at a suitably low frequency that's both in tune with the kick and in key with the whole song can make for a nice smooth and cohesive house kick.

And I know the 909 gets a lot of love right now but I will always prefer the 808 and the 606. Chris Moss uses a 707, the crazy loon.

@Outre Lights
If I'm doing something especially minimal then I feel free to go as low as I can. I've had good fun with just 40hz sines, pink noise and reverb. Usually I go for somewhere around 80Hz in a non-minimal (for me) track. Assuming I understand the question.

When I highpass a kick it's rarely over 30hz... If stuff audibly/somatosensorially vanishes in a bad way, then I low shelf instead (rarely attenuating by more than -12dB, if that makes grammatical/mathematical sense).

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