m4L or Max/msp
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Modular software & programming MaxMSP, Reaktor, Pure Data, Jeskola BUZZ, and other modular programs. Any questions relating to these programs (patching, favorite ensembles) should be posted in this forum.

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Old 18-04-2012, 08:22 PM   #1
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m4L or Max/msp

Is there any difference between having max/msp and max for live?
im trying to decide what to purchase.

First, im concerned with stability, what is your experience with crashing ableton with m4l and crashing max as standalone, which do you think is more stable?

Second, since i already own ableton live 8, if there really isnt any difference between both in terms of stability and usability (same objects, same techniques, etc) im thinking i should probably wait for ableton live 9 since max for live comes free with ableton. what do you think?

any comments, ideas, will be greatly apreciatted.
pls answer only people who have used max/msp and/or max for live since im trying to decide what to do with my money.

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Old 18-04-2012, 09:23 PM   #2
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

I loooooooove M4L, although I don't program my own instruments yet. I figure I'll never make music if I get oo into that. I mainly just use the pluggo stuff and download the occasional random instruments that people upload. M4L just integrates Max with Ableton, so you can use max for live devices just like any of the other ableton devices. If you're an ableton user to begin with, I'd say go with M4L just for convenience sake (IMO). Full disclosure - I've never used the standalone Max/MSP, I just know that I like M4L.

ETA: Also I find that some of the devices are glitchy and make me restart Ableton sometimes. It depends on who made them and how much they're tested and developed. Since anyone can make whatever they want, some stuff is unstable. And on another note, here are a few devices I'm about to check out: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

Last edited by surgeongeneral; 18-04-2012 at 09:38 PM..

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Old 18-04-2012, 09:37 PM   #3
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

Im interested in patching and getting to a level where i dont have to worry about the time i spend patching and just make music out of nothing. Im not into using pre programmed stuff for my personal works, so the libraries and presets are not a factor that will influence my desition.
thanks for replying on such a short notice
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Old 19-04-2012, 12:41 AM   #4
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

I'd get M4L if you work with Live. The standalone Max is viable only, if/when you don't use Live.
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Old 19-04-2012, 11:24 AM   #5
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

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Originally Posted by ardot_adot View Post
Im interested in patching and getting to a level where i dont have to worry about the time i spend patching and just make music out of nothing. Im not into using pre programmed stuff for my personal works, so the libraries and presets are not a factor that will influence my desition.
thanks for replying on such a short notice
When I was talking about preprogrammed, I meant someone else had actually made a device. I wasnt talking about presets within a device but the device itself. You can make whatever device you can think of from scratch and have it work in ableton if you have the patience. I don't right now so I use devices other people have created like the pluggo package.

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Old 22-04-2012, 06:46 AM   #6
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

I use Max/MSP. It's pretty sweet. You can make it crash if you program something wrong, but it has worked well for me. I don't use ableton, though I got Max for Live with the package I got.

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Old 22-04-2012, 06:20 PM   #7
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

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Originally Posted by I/O_Madness View Post
I use Max/MSP. It's pretty sweet. You can make it crash if you program something wrong, but it has worked well for me. I don't use ableton, though I got Max for Live with the package I got.

Thanks I/O Madness, so basically you could say that max/msp´s stability depends 100% on the user?
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Old 23-04-2012, 04:20 AM   #8
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

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Originally Posted by ardot_adot View Post
Thanks I/O Madness, so basically you could say that max/msp´s stability depends 100% on the user?
Maybe not 100%, as there's always the chance of something happening, but in my experience anytime it crashed was because I did something it didn't like.

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Old 23-04-2012, 05:03 AM   #9
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

i need to start using max again. anyone want to pitch me a cool idea?

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Old 11-05-2012, 05:51 PM   #10
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

the only different between m4l and max5 or max6 is:

m4l is integrated to ableton. patches can not be exported to be used as standalone patches (programs), only as devices in ableton.

max5 or max6 are not integrated into ableton, and have no ability to access data from the Live object-model (without some major haxoring). you can, however, create and export standalone patches & programs.

m4l seems to be the most logical route, because, there's really no need whatsoever to have your m4l devices exported as standalone patches, simply because if you REALLY REALLY need an m4l patch outside of ableton, just simply download the free open-souce PureData platform, and it's literally a copy/paste from a max patch into a PD patch, and voila, you've created your M4L device as a standalone program in PD. communication between max & PD is startlingly simple, as well. the benefits you get from m4l's ability to get really 'under the hood' inside ableton's object model make it more attractive to a musician then max5/6 would be...

but with max6, you can do some really cool stuff with ~gen... which max5/m4l can not do.

but the ultimate answer depends on your programming experience/interest/dedication....
i had absolutely zero programming experience prior to m4l's release, i've taught myself everything in the last year since i've had max, and it really is easy to get started, but max is an insanely large environment which will take some people YEARS to understand (including myself). on the good side, you do not need a full comprehensive understanding of max to get started making really cool stuff. even within a day of reading/tinkering you could have given yourself the knowledge to make virtually anything...

...the largest obstacle in max, imo, is just trying to come to grips with how infinite your creation possibilities are, and understanding what you need to do you achieve this. as your experience with max grows, your efficiency in programming will become much better, and you'll find yourself spending less and less time patching; things that would take you weeks in the beginning, you will eventually figure out ways to accomplish the same tasks within a few simple minutes of patching.

...then the doors open wide as to how powerful max truly is! happy patching
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #11
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

Quote:
Originally Posted by unpuercofeo View Post
i need to start using max again. anyone want to pitch me a cool idea?
start patching and the ideas should spring up like lightbulbs...

alternatively,sometimes when i need some max inspiration, i just browse the max4live.com database, check out other peoples cool ideas, and see if there are any that trigger inspirational thoughts in my mind, or, see if anyone's got a sweet patch that could be made even sweeter and build upon it... that's the whole purpose of modular programming, share inspiration with other like-minded patchers, and build upon these ideas. my most 'interesting' patches in max came from expanding upon someone else's base idea, and building it into something fully integrated as per how I felt it best should operate.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #12
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Re: m4L or Max/msp

Max (standalone) and MaxforLive (needs Ableton) are seperate programs.

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