How much is a sample pack worth?
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Old 23-04-2016, 07:04 PM   #1
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How much is a sample pack worth?

Hey people,

Lets say you created a sample pack, the pack contains very high quality samples. The sample pack contains 250 four-bar loops and 150 one-shots. The pack isn't your usual 20 EDM kicks, claps, etc. but rather actually required creativity and a lot of effort.

If a company who sells these types of sample packs wanted to buy the pack and the full rights along with it it one single buyout, how much would it be worth? They would then put it on their website and sell it themselves.

I have no idea what a reasonable price for this would be, and didn't keep track of the hours I spent on it because I was doing it for fun mostly. It took more or less 8 weeks to complete it.

I myself would guess the asking price of about 2500 USD is reasonable, but I have no idea if this proposal would get out right rejected, or if I can go even higher towards 5000 USD. Of course it depends on the company, but what would be a good reasonable price when asked?

I don't want to sound ridiculously greedy but I wouldn't want to get ripped off either from my work. I simply don't know what it's worth, neither do I know how much the company makes of off these packs. I would guess they make quite a lot though since they will distribute the pack through their own website, and in 7 worldwide distributors including Loopmasters. I checked an SEO website and it seems that their own company website alone gets about 200k+ visitors monthly.

They said they were looking to offer a single buy out for the pack... Maybe it would be beneficial if I proposed a percentage royalty type of payout? I'm not sure if they are open to this suggestion.

I thought this would be the best place to ask. I hope someone can give me some insight.

Thanks!

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Old 23-04-2016, 07:37 PM   #2
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

Did they offer you something already? They must deal with such people like yourself quite often and might already have came up with that right price which usually makes both parties happy. I suggest asking them how much they're willing to pay you.

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Old 23-04-2016, 07:54 PM   #3
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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Did they offer you something already? They must deal with such people like yourself quite often and might already have came up with that right price which usually makes both parties happy. I suggest asking them how much they're willing to pay you.
You make a good point. No they haven't offered yet. I think that, from a business point of view, it would give them a huge leverage if I had no idea what the work is worth. At least some idea of what it's worth would be beneficial, just in case they decide to make a below average offer. In this case, I don't even know the average haha.

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Old 23-04-2016, 08:04 PM   #4
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

send them all my way and i'll assess their market value.

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Old 23-04-2016, 08:19 PM   #5
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

You could try contacting similar companies and get more info about their prices, what they can offer: do they want to have a full license or deal with percentage royalty... Check what prices they put for individual sample packs. Also, think about it, If you ask for $2500 and, for example, they're selling $25 per pack, 100 individuals need to buy it first and only then this company would make some profit. I might be wrong but price seems kind of steep and it's very risky from company's point of view, as you know, sample packs market is ridiculously huge and I don't think there's a huge demand of these products; people aren't waiting in line to get this newest pack of awesome.

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Old 23-04-2016, 08:24 PM   #6
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?


We find this method very useful for pricing everything we make at the leathershop I work for. It might at least help get you thinking in the right direction.

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Old 23-04-2016, 08:39 PM   #7
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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Originally Posted by samk44 View Post
Lets say you created a sample pack, the pack contains very high quality samples. The pack isn't your usual 20 EDM kicks, claps, etc. but rather actually required creativity and a lot of effort.
Completely subjective. Doesn't tell us anything. Are these recorded samples or synthesized? What equipment was needed to record/synthesize them? Was that equipment specialized/rare? Is there a market for what your sample pack contains?

If you had 20 microphones recording a stereo loop of a gigantic pipe organ inside Wieliczka Salt Mine, possibly quite a bit. If you just noodled around with a TR-808, not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samk44 View Post
If a company who sells these types of sample packs wanted to buy the pack and the full rights along with it it one single buyout, how much would it be worth?
Depends on the content and the company. Bigger companies can afford to pay more, and would most likely not approach you if they weren't interested to pay a fair bit. They also have a larger coverage, so there will be on average more sales than a smaller company, so it kind of evens out.

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Originally Posted by samk44 View Post
I myself would guess the asking price of about 2500 USD is reasonable, but I have no idea if this proposal would get out right rejected, or if I can go even higher towards 5000 USD. Of course it depends on the company, but what would be a good reasonable price when asked?
2500 USD, if we assume ~$25 hourly wage, implies 100 hours work. Roughly 10 hours/day for the two past workweeks. How many hours did you spend on this project? Multiply that with what you consider a reasonable hourly wage. Also consider the equipment needed - if it was expensive and/or rare, you can up the cost anywhere from 50%-150%, especially if you needed to rent something such as a studio/concert hall or a warehouse to record in.

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Old 23-04-2016, 08:41 PM   #8
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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Originally Posted by Blingley View Post
2500 USD, if we assume ~$25 hourly wage, implies 100 hours work. Roughly 10 hours/day for the two past workweeks. How many hours did you spend on this project? Multiply that with what you consider a reasonable hourly wage. Also consider the equipment needed - if it was expensive and/or rare, you can up the cost anywhere from 50%-150%, especially if you needed to rent something such as a studio/concert hall or a warehouse to record in.
Kinda almost what the video I posted suggests. Spot on.

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Old 23-04-2016, 10:26 PM   #9
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

Wow thats awesome, thanks for the replies and the video everyone!
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Old 24-04-2016, 01:06 AM   #10
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

One last thing!

I'm trying to estimate everything right now, both my hours & whats reasonable for me, but also taking their profits into consideration from one single pack.

Their profit obviously varies depending on the sample pack and the demand for that particular one pack.

My best guess is that their conversion rate for each sample pack is about 0,1% (1/1000) of their monthly visitors. They get 200k+ traffic monthly as mentioned, and they are a well established company.

0,001*200000 = 200 people who will buy the particular sample pack I will sell to them.

That means an estimate of about 200 people will buy that particular pack during the first month. They sell packs for about 30 USD.

200*30 = 7000 USD

which means it would be unreasonable to ask for anymore than 4000 USD..

Is that a bad bet, or can I even assume somewhere up to 0,5% of their traffic will buy it if the sample pack I've made is in demand?

0,5% makes a huge difference.

0,005*200000 = 1000 people

1000*30 = 30000 USD

Suddenly, 6000 USD is a possible asking price from my side.

Oh by the way, keep in mind these are the sales only from their website.. I assume they make only 60% of all their incomes from their site, the rest comes from different distributors which I've not even taken into account.

One more thing that you can take into account. I've estimated that I've put in about 180 hours total, during 8 weeks time.

asking for 6000 USD would mean that I had an hourly rate of 33 USD.

4000 USD is 22 USD per hour.

Lol sorry for the long post, I hope someone actually has the energy to read it.

Thanks again
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Old 24-04-2016, 01:16 AM   #11
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

Don't forget the basic math that 100% of $500 is infinitely larger than 0% of $4000. Do you need money? Did you make the sample pack with profit in mind or is this an opportunistic deal? Would they settle for non-exclusive rights?

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Old 24-04-2016, 01:25 AM   #12
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samk44 View Post
One last thing!

I'm trying to estimate everything right now, both my hours & whats reasonable for me, but also taking their profits into consideration from one single pack.

Their profit obviously varies depending on the sample pack and the demand for that particular one pack.

My best guess is that their conversion rate for each sample pack is about 0,1% (1/1000) of their monthly visitors. They get 200k+ traffic monthly as mentioned, and they are a well established company.

0,001*200000 = 200 people who will buy the particular sample pack I will sell to them.

That means an estimate of about 200 people will buy that particular pack during the first month. They sell packs for about 30 USD.

200*30 = 7000 USD

which means it would be unreasonable to ask for anymore than 4000 USD..

Is that a bad bet, or can I even assume somewhere up to 0,5% of their traffic will buy it if the sample pack I've made is in demand?

0,5% makes a huge difference.

0,005*200000 = 1000 people

1000*30 = 30000 USD

Suddenly, 6000 USD is a possible asking price from my side.

Oh by the way, keep in mind these are the sales only from their website.. I assume they make only 60% of all their incomes from their site, the rest comes from different distributors which I've not even taken into account.

One more thing that you can take into account. I've estimated that I've put in about 180 hours total, during 8 weeks time.

asking for 6000 USD would mean that I had an hourly rate of 33 USD.

4000 USD is 22 USD per hour.

Lol sorry for the long post, I hope someone actually has the energy to read it.

Thanks again

That's all well and good, but in the end this is all conjecture..you really don't know where you stand until you get them to make a hard offer..once you have that, you can do all of this "figuring out", as you'll have a figure to refer to.

Another thing..don't be in too much of a rush to sell your work either..if they really do like what you've produced, then they won't be going anywhere in a hurry..let them do the sweating..not you..you're worth it..your work is worth it..so act like it and take control of this by getting them to make a solid offer BEFORE you let them know what you are willing to take in return for your work..you NEED to know what THEY think you are worth.

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Old 24-04-2016, 01:26 AM   #13
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

I'm just spitballing here but if, as you say, they potentially make 7k off the pack I think 2500 is more than fair for your side. 4k to me seems reaching. You created the pack sure but you have to remember it's the company who carries the risk in the end.

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Old 24-04-2016, 01:33 AM   #14
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samk44 View Post
My best guess is that their conversion rate for each sample pack is about 0,1% (1/1000) of their monthly visitors. They get 200k+ traffic monthly as mentioned, and they are a well established company.
No idea how accurate this is. Hard to tell. Some of those people could be bots, or the same people checking it out. They could just be people that listen to demos on the website and then run off to some torrent site to download it.

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Originally Posted by samk44 View Post
That means an estimate of about 200 people will buy that particular pack during the first month. They sell packs for about 30 USD. 200*30 = 7000 USD
*6000 USD.

And they have to pay for marketing, artwork, web development, office space, and taxes. There can be just upwards to ~25% VAT in those prices, as well.

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which means it would be unreasonable to ask for anymore than 4000 USD..
At 6k expected revenue from sales, asking for 4k would also be unreasonable.

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Old 24-04-2016, 01:54 AM   #15
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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Originally Posted by liquid_air View Post
Don't forget the basic math that 100% of $500 is infinitely larger than 0% of $4000. Do you need money? Did you make the sample pack with profit in mind or is this an opportunistic deal? Would they settle for non-exclusive rights?
True indeed. Well I do need money because I have no other income, but initially when I started making the pack I was just doing it for fun. No I am pretty sure they wouldn't settle for non-exclusive rights.
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Old 24-04-2016, 01:55 AM   #16
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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Originally Posted by A.M View Post
That's all well and good, but in the end this is all conjecture..you really don't know where you stand until you get them to make a hard offer..once you have that, you can do all of this "figuring out", as you'll have a figure to refer to.

Another thing..don't be in too much of a rush to sell your work either..if they really do like what you've produced, then they won't be going anywhere in a hurry..let them do the sweating..not you..you're worth it..your work is worth it..so act like it and take control of this by getting them to make a solid offer BEFORE you let them know what you are willing to take in return for your work..you NEED to know what THEY think you are worth.
Thanks dude thats great advice, I'm going to keep that in mind.
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Old 24-04-2016, 01:58 AM   #17
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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I'm just spitballing here but if, as you say, they potentially make 7k off the pack I think 2500 is more than fair for your side. 4k to me seems reaching. You created the pack sure but you have to remember it's the company who carries the risk in the end.
Thanks, I will remember that. I think we can for the most part agree that 2,5k is about as low as it can go.
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Old 24-04-2016, 02:06 AM   #18
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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Originally Posted by Blingley View Post
No idea how accurate this is. Hard to tell. Some of those people could be bots, or the same people checking it out. They could just be people that listen to demos on the website and then run off to some torrent site to download it.



*6000 USD.

And they have to pay for marketing, artwork, web development, office space, and taxes. There can be just upwards to ~25% VAT in those prices, as well.



At 6k expected revenue from sales, asking for 4k would also be unreasonable.
Yeah true didn't even think of all the people torrenting nowadays. Also true about their other expenses.

I guess 4k would be pushing it. As I replied to RFJ, I think 2,5k is the lowest. For 2,5k, I've pretty much worked for at a regular 9-5 job in my country (same hourly rate).

And I value my work at least a little above that. I think 3-4k is actually fair but as you said, if they make 6k in profit they would probably not go for that deal..
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Old 24-04-2016, 02:22 AM   #19
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

you could sell off the samples and then go ahead and write a hit record with them, but then the wankers and trainspotters would call you out as a hack for using a bunch of pre-fab sample content.

basically you're fucked either way.

tell them you want 2k for them, if they balk they'll fire back an offer or tell you to take a hike.

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Old 24-04-2016, 02:27 AM   #20
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Re: How much is a sample pack worth?

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tell them you want 2k for them, if they balk they'll fire back an offer or tell you to take a hike.
Solid.

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