when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange
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Old 15-01-2014, 09:01 PM   #1
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when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

Yo.

So here's a conundrum I often end up facing: trying to determine at which point in the track making process I glitch and when I mix.

What I mean is.. say you have a drum beat going, and your intention is to get jiggy with it on the glitches. That's all well and good, but you are faced with some choices. If you just go ahead and get to mangling, it will be inspiring and cool sounding, but you may find later that it doesn't fit with the other elements of the song quite right.. and since you've bounced it down and resampled etc, it's impossible to go back and eq just the snare, or compress that tom sound. So you might be SOL in a way.

Ok.. so if you say I'm going to mix the drums and then glitch them.. which is probably the most prudent choice, you might end up getting booorrrreddd, and losing inspiration, or even forgetting about the initial idea you had for glitching the drums.

Also, there's arrangement itself. what do you do? copy paste a simple beat over the whole song, and then write the song itself, hen mix the drums, and then glitch it out finally? I guess this is a good way to go about it. But I dunno, if you listen to the glitched out songs on drukqs, for instance, the glitcheness itself becomes a part of the composition. I guess that wouldn't necessarily be impossible to accomplish by doing the glitchiness last, but maybe you might miss out on some feel or something.


what do u think?

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Old 15-01-2014, 09:36 PM   #2
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

gates, layering are a few choices.

i dunno about mixing the drums then glitching them, won't glitching the sound out change timbre/dyanmics, all that jazz? might be something to consider.

what about glitchy layers under your actual dry/acoustics/electronic drums, it would provide an extra layer, provide you with your ideas to create glitchy stuff.

im gating glitches against my drums in a current track, it isn't a rhythm based idea but my idea was more of chaotic froth coming out of the drums.
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Old 15-01-2014, 10:03 PM   #3
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

well, I guess it depends on how sever the glitching is. If we're talking retriggers, reverse, delays, and even filtering, it seems like if you start with drums that are mixed to fit the song, the results will sit better. But good point, there are a lot of glitching techniques which will totally replace the timbre of the original drums.

also i like the idea of a subliminal layer of glitches. think i'm gonna mess with that.
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Old 15-01-2014, 10:11 PM   #4
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

another idea, depending on the track and your arrangement... i always like drums that will just be normal then towards the bridge/end of the track they just explode, stretch, glitch out.

Bjork kind of does that in a few of her new tracks off Biophilia, its very calm then these glitched out/breakcore heavy feels come in, but only for a short time. its very adrenaline rushy. its kind of typical of her but i remember she said she valued various drill n bass ideas.

exampleee:
3:03 quake happens

also, if and when post this track im very curious how it'll turn out dude
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Old 15-01-2014, 10:33 PM   #5
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

You can also automate EQ and filter parameters depending on what else is going on in the song next to your glitches. I find doing the tried and true Jungle thing works quite well--EQ out the lows and some mids from your glitched, sliced drums and have a kick and snare driving the beat, you can even glitch that snare at times so it doesnt seem so static.

If you want full frequency glitched drums that are all over the spectrum as you do different edits, let that be the lead in the track, make everything else frequency wise work around it. Clever arrangement and songwriting will help here.

Dont think about any element in isolation. Know where its going to sit before you even start. ;p

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Old 15-01-2014, 10:36 PM   #6
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

write percussion and song. write glitches after arrangement is finished. program glitches according to rhythm.

mix when all said and done.

if you need to eq your stuff so much that the glitches no longer make sense in a mix, you probably had shit drums to begin with... or you'll need to massage the edits in with the mix.

protip: add a bus compressor and eq to your drum subgroup, it can do a decent job "geling" your edits together. the eq will help if you need to cut or boost to fit into a mix.

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Old 15-01-2014, 10:37 PM   #7
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

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Know where its going to sit before you even start. ;p

yeah that.

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Old 15-01-2014, 10:48 PM   #8
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

It's funny, the better I get at programming natural sounding percussion the less I glitch stuff. I still bounce the drums to one file and chop / reverse here and there but gone are the days where there is a series of glitches in every measure.

With that said I usually wait until the end of it all to glitch anything. The composition phase is spent mainly tweaking velocities per hit and programming my own fills / breaks / what-have-you. Usually, by the time I'm done, I throw in two to three glitches for impact and call it.

Although when I set the grid to infinite I can zoom in far enough to program glitches via midi. When I do that it's always right in the middle of composition because, again, it's still midi.

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Old 15-01-2014, 10:58 PM   #9
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

interesting.

thanks guys this is exactly what I was wanting to hear.

I guess I was leaning towards what most of you are saying.. glitching last. It makes the most sense I reckon. Have to resist the temptation to glitch the hell out of some silly loop at the beginning.
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Old 16-01-2014, 01:29 AM   #10
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

Are you multitracking your drums? It might be easier to glitch stuff artfully if you aren't using drum loops, right?

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Old 20-01-2014, 03:55 AM   #11
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

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Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
Are you multitracking your drums? It might be easier to glitch stuff artfully if you aren't using drum loops, right?
yea. i don't use loops. all sequenced out using battery.
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Old 20-01-2014, 05:06 AM   #12
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

When you need to.
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Old 20-01-2014, 08:04 AM   #13
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

Just slow down.

First off, this is a big question, and there are subtleties.

How you approach this is likely to reflect who you are as an artist. The choices you make are what you are. They are what people enjoy when listening to your toons. Don't think this is like some easy thing that is obvious. There are many many ways to approach this. There isn't one monumental right way to do this.

What ever works for you, #1 rule. Try advice you read here, and elsewhere, but don't take it to heart until you've found that it works for you.

Here is what I do: I start most songs with drums. I select drum samples that work together, and will volume balance everything, and eq. From there, I'll really start on the meat of the track, and at any point in there I might start glitching drums (or anything else).

How you glitch, well, there are millions of ways to do it, right, so who knows. Can use vst's, external devices, can work in audio and chop, can work in midi, can combine any and all of those.

Lets say it is like later mix time. Just treat those glitched drums as drums. Compress, eq, limit. Maybe you want to take glitches out of the mixed audio. Like lets say you printed your whole drum buss glitched to stereo audio. And now, like the kick is weak, the snare is too narrow, etc. What to do?

Automation - can go in and automate per hit. Can get crazy with eq, bump 100hz every kick hit. Or stereo widening tool turned on for snare hits. Or whatever.

If that is too much. Go back into that audio and start cutting out your elements again. Sending them to new channels on your mixer. Cut out the kicks, hats, snares, and glitches. This will let you even do further edits on those specific glitches, along with mix issues.

Or do drum reinforcement, if you don't want to do a lot of automating, or cuting. Layer in audio or midi, but probably audio by this point, samples to support/reinforce your hits. Not enough bass in your kick, find a subby or knocky kick that you like, eq/comp if necessary, and drop it in below each kick, blend in how ever much you need. Snare too narrow, drop in a really wide clap or whatever, below each snare instance.

This is all just brief examples. But really, this is a big issue, how you solve/approach this is who you are, so spend time trying a bunch of techniques, and see what works for you.

For me, generic glitches are uninteresting, and really just kind of offensive. Invested glitching is more rewarding. Invest yourself in your glitching, or just throw a glitch tool on your drums, up a song to sc and forget about it in 15 minutes. Whatever.

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Old 21-01-2014, 07:33 AM   #14
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Re: when to glitch.. when to mix.. when to arrange

For me I like to get all the composition down, then I arrange and work on sound design and or find the right presets. I usually add glitchy stabs in the "drop" part of the song if the mood of the song calls for it. And I like to mix as I go.

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