Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter
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Old 27-02-2015, 08:28 AM   #1
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Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

Lets firstly get this out of the way: yes you can do either/both and why not.

They are 2 different experiences and will have 2 different effects on your creative process.

Im wondering why some people do one more than the other. Personally I find doing manual automations to be a bit more interesting because I feel I can be more precise with my sound design but when im making presets I find it to be quicker and so instead of spending hours on one sound I can get to other parts faster which sometimes feels alot better, and the problem is it depends on what im feeling so I wonder which one would/should be better to approach because while it feels great to move on quicker it doesnt feel good to not be so precise and while it feels good to be precise it doesnt feel so good to take so much time.

How do you feel toward each one? Have you had my problem before? How did you overcome those feelings and which one do you end up doing more and what context would you do either one in? If I didn't have the bad feelings I would be more meticulous because the very fine details are very important to me although ill admit those details can be lost in the total mix so perhaps theres a certain workflow like for example say you automate the operators/oscillators/etc and then select drums that would sound good with what you have and then whatever room you have left you could throw some pads in there and maybe a lead after that (any order)

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Old 27-02-2015, 03:01 PM   #2
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

I tend to have tons of presets for stuff because making presets for synths is tons of fun. Then I tend to start tracks through some intricate sounds that take forever to make, and just slam presets on top until the original idea is buried somewhere where it will never be found.

Then I get myself a cup of tea and fondly regard creation.

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Old 27-02-2015, 06:26 PM   #3
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

I tend towards doing everything from scratch each time. Recently though, I admitted to myself that I basically end up doing the same thing for certain sounds quite often when I'm writing, so started saving certain pre-sets when I had something I liked - then the tweaking I end up doing afterwards makes those sounds actually more individual, but still retains a certain unity of 'the sound' within my work.
I'm considering starting to actually save some templates for the common effects chains I use just to speed up workflow, which is the only problem I have with Logic - Ableton 6 was where I started and I'll freely admit the workflow's a lot faster, I miss it. And beatrepeat. I reeeeally miss beatrepeat. And the resonator.
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Old 27-02-2015, 06:40 PM   #4
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

I like to do both, but only a few at a time. Usually other people's freeware presets are a good enough starting point for sounds that are common enough to be good and good enough to be common.

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Old 27-02-2015, 08:22 PM   #5
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

Detail is nice, but sometimes, so is a quickly conceived patch on top of 20 others like it. By manual automations, are you talking about automation lanes in Live? I don't really understand this thread, but I want to.
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Old 27-02-2015, 08:35 PM   #6
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

both. Depends on the project but some get worked on more than others are doing n terms of patches.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:22 AM   #7
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

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Originally Posted by Blingley View Post
I tend to have tons of presets for stuff because making presets for synths is tons of fun. Then I tend to start tracks through some intricate sounds that take forever to make, and just slam presets on top until the original idea is buried somewhere where it will never be found.

Then I get myself a cup of tea and fondly regard creation.
Cheers for the response!

Excellent tunes btw!

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Old 01-03-2015, 04:37 AM   #8
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

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Originally Posted by Kvlt O))) View Post
Detail is nice, but sometimes, so is a quickly conceived patch on top of 20 others like it. By manual automations, are you talking about automation lanes in Live? I don't really understand this thread, but I want to.
One thing I am afraid of with that is phasing, Of course you don't know until you try but I tend to get seriously uninspired when what I create is not usable because I get attached quite easily (maybe I just need a girlfriend :|) and get severly depressed when it just sits there abandoned by me . I'm like a little kid, but a motherly-like kid who doesn't like to abandon her babies/creations

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I don't know either man. I kinda feel like things are heading towards talking about our feels...
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:13 PM   #9
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

They're not really different experiences at all. Patching is a process of modulation versus automation. The fundamental difference is that modulation is an event driven process and automation is a time driven process. They're both ways of bringing dynamics of expression to a performance.

For example:
Modulation = In the event of a note on/note off/aftertouch/etc message do this
Automation = At this point in time do this

Modulation sources could include LFO's ADSR envelopes, Pulse Width Modulation, Key-tracking on filters, Velocity / Aftertouch functions, Pitch bends or mod-wheel positions, to name a few. Essentially what you're doing is telling a modulation source to effect a control base on the ratio between itself and the control its acting on.

One simple example of modulation would be Live's Clip Envelopes or Machine's "Automation" (Which is really modulation). When you draw an "automation" line in a Clip Envelope, you're not telling that control to set itself to the position shown by the line. You're telling it to set the control to the line's position as a ratio of its current setting. So, if you have a send set to 50% and a Clip Envelope for that send with a line set to 50%, then the send output will be at 25%.

So you would use modulation to control behaviour during performance. Eg: applying key-tracking to your patch so that the cutoff is opened up as you play at higher octaves, or modulating the cutoff against the velocity. So someone like me who prefers to perform versus sequence, I'll spend more time working on a patch with a particular focus on modulation because the result is a more expressive instrument.

Automation on the other hand, is a case where the line's position sets the control at exactly that amount - assuming there's no modulation acting on that control. People who prefer just to automate things (I'm assuming you mean people who draw automation lines) are typically more interested in sequencing things. So, if they have a good bass sound, they might not necessarily want to focus on developing its performance control. They have a four bar bass line, all they want to do is throw a filter over it and automate the cutoff. That's all they need.

But again, I don't see this as being an inherently different way of doing things. The process is generally a combination of automation and modulation. I could hit record and play something live, with some automation via my keyboard and come up with a similar result as someone who plays a loop and then draws a bunch of automation lanes. It's just a different route to the same result. There will be qualities that a performance has over a sequence and vice versa. But it mainly comes down to which route is the best to achieve your aim.

For example, I prefer playing all of my musical sections because that's the best way I can express myself in this regard. But when it comes to drums, I might tap out a few ideas on the pads, but for the most part I'll be sequencing a piano roll because that's the best way I can express myself in this area. Some things I'll automate, some things I'll modulate, most things will be half each way.

That's what I mean though, it's just a question of what's the best route for getting the job done. An LFO is better suited to creating a 16 bar filter sweep than drawing these by hands. However, if you want the sweeps to gradually open up over 64 bars, then drawing an increasing line on the cutoff/LFO amount over 64 bars and voila. Likewise, maybe on the last beat of every 16th bar I want to send the drums to the delay at varying levels each time. So, I draw a 16 bar Clip Envelope with the shape of the send going from zero to 100%, then I automate the send amount to increase/decrease as required.

Now I don't have to go in and fastidiously draw every instance of this event. And more than that, modulating like this means that instead of having to ride that delay in a live setting, I can just nudge the control when I have the chance between doing more important things, like playing music and interacting with my audience and such.
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:15 PM   #10
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

And the other thing on live performance is that you can really tell the difference between a well designed patch and a well automated one once you hear someone live a few times. A good patch will sound different every time. Depending on the performer's mood and the vibe and whatever. For example, I have a few patches that gets really growly and twisted when I get excited and tap the keys a bit harder or am a bit more sudden in the way I control things. Versus if I'm laid-back and playing with control, it's all peace and mung beans sing yourself to sleep.
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:52 PM   #11
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

I like my 3rd option - breeding, morphing and randomizing between 2 chosen presets.
These 2 presets can be my own (made manually), and/or made by some other sound designer (made manually). You can adjust percentage on how much (breeding/morphing/randomization) of one or the other that you want.

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Old 02-03-2015, 05:32 AM   #12
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

Dayum sucha smexi threaddd oolalaaaa meow rraoww..

Well this is helpful for the skill aspect of it but as Jaded has pointed out before, im not communicating properly........

When I say 2 experiences Im talking about 2 emotional experiences, the way it FEELS. Although the keytracking thing isn't something I have explored (and I seriously thank you) it's not the actual work that I have a problem with, it's DOING the work. I can get started but I eventually start to get feelings that prevent me from continuing or getting anywhere substantial. MY APOLOGIES for not specifying, I am going to work on another thread in the side discussion thread.

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I don't know either man. I kinda feel like things are heading towards talking about our feels...
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So, this is the time to confess my unrequited love for Dhji?
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Old 09-03-2015, 06:11 PM   #13
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Re: Quickly Make Your Own Presets Or Maticulously Automate Each Parameter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
They're not really different experiences at all. Patching is a process of modulation versus automation. The fundamental difference is that modulation is an event driven process and automation is a time driven process. They're both ways of bringing dynamics of expression to a performance.

For example:
Modulation = In the event of a note on/note off/aftertouch/etc message do this
Automation = At this point in time do this

Modulation sources could include LFO's ADSR envelopes, Pulse Width Modulation, Key-tracking on filters, Velocity / Aftertouch functions, Pitch bends or mod-wheel positions, to name a few. Essentially what you're doing is telling a modulation source to effect a control base on the ratio between itself and the control its acting on.

One simple example of modulation would be Live's Clip Envelopes or Machine's "Automation" (Which is really modulation). When you draw an "automation" line in a Clip Envelope, you're not telling that control to set itself to the position shown by the line. You're telling it to set the control to the line's position as a ratio of its current setting. So, if you have a send set to 50% and a Clip Envelope for that send with a line set to 50%, then the send output will be at 25%.

So you would use modulation to control behaviour during performance. Eg: applying key-tracking to your patch so that the cutoff is opened up as you play at higher octaves, or modulating the cutoff against the velocity. So someone like me who prefers to perform versus sequence, I'll spend more time working on a patch with a particular focus on modulation because the result is a more expressive instrument.

Automation on the other hand, is a case where the line's position sets the control at exactly that amount - assuming there's no modulation acting on that control. People who prefer just to automate things (I'm assuming you mean people who draw automation lines) are typically more interested in sequencing things. So, if they have a good bass sound, they might not necessarily want to focus on developing its performance control. They have a four bar bass line, all they want to do is throw a filter over it and automate the cutoff. That's all they need.

But again, I don't see this as being an inherently different way of doing things. The process is generally a combination of automation and modulation. I could hit record and play something live, with some automation via my keyboard and come up with a similar result as someone who plays a loop and then draws a bunch of automation lanes. It's just a different route to the same result. There will be qualities that a performance has over a sequence and vice versa. But it mainly comes down to which route is the best to achieve your aim.

For example, I prefer playing all of my musical sections because that's the best way I can express myself in this regard. But when it comes to drums, I might tap out a few ideas on the pads, but for the most part I'll be sequencing a piano roll because that's the best way I can express myself in this area. Some things I'll automate, some things I'll modulate, most things will be half each way.

That's what I mean though, it's just a question of what's the best route for getting the job done. An LFO is better suited to creating a 16 bar filter sweep than drawing these by hands. However, if you want the sweeps to gradually open up over 64 bars, then drawing an increasing line on the cutoff/LFO amount over 64 bars and voila. Likewise, maybe on the last beat of every 16th bar I want to send the drums to the delay at varying levels each time. So, I draw a 16 bar Clip Envelope with the shape of the send going from zero to 100%, then I automate the send amount to increase/decrease as required.

Now I don't have to go in and fastidiously draw every instance of this event. And more than that, modulating like this means that instead of having to ride that delay in a live setting, I can just nudge the control when I have the chance between doing more important things, like playing music and interacting with my audience and such.
Curtis Roads brah

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